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Free Flo and Real Ro: Alternatives to Violence

An interview by Rod MacIver

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Originally published in Heron Dance, Issue 8, April 1996

Florence McNeil and Rose-Marie Sheehan offer Alternatives to Violence workshops in prisons in central New York state. The workshops provide inmates with a safe environment in which to open up and confront the issues of their lives. In late 1995, I spent three days in the Woodbourne Correctional Facility, a high/medium security prison, with Florence and Rose-Marie. This is the story of what I experienced and portions of the interview that took place one day at lunch.

Woodbourne is a huge, sprawling prison surrounded by twenty-foot chain link fences, topped by razor wire. Our classroom was in the center of the complex. After our hand baggage was inspected, a guard guided us through security gates, hallways and a courtyard. Everyone wears uniforms—the guards one color, the inmates another. This is a different world—a world of dingy hallways, of white guards and black inmates.

As we walked the prison, we came across inmates mopping the floor; generally, they would smile and say, “Good morning.” The guards would nod stern-faced in response. In the classroom, twenty prisoners were waiting for us, dressed in freshly pressed, green work uniforms. The chairs were arranged in a circle. I chose a chair and waited while the workshop leaders conferred. The young man beside me confided, “Oh, man, I am so nervous.” I asked him why. He said he had never done anything like this before. He asked if I was nervous. I told him, “Not yet.” When I looked around the room I noticed the scars. Faces marred by bullets, scars around eyes, on hands, on necks, fingers missing. The eyes: hurt, kindness, blankness, fear. Over the next three days of being together in the same room, many of those expression were changed as we relaxed and friendships took form.

Of the inmates, five had done the course before, in a couple of cases many times before. They are “facilitators” and helped run the exercises. Florence McNeil and Rose-Marie Sheehan are the lead facilitators. Both were around sixty years old. Their white hair and diminutive size stood out among the inmates, many of whom were large and muscular. Also attending the class was a young woman—a guest from the outside. During the class, she would confide that she too was dealing with issues in her life and wondering what role the Alternatives to Violence Program (AVP) might play in that process.

We started with introductions. Each of us spoke for a minute or so about why we were taking the course. “I want to deal with my tendency toward violence.” “Prison has given me an opportunity to explore the issues of my life.” Then, one of the inmates mentioned that he was in for a violent crime. From that point on each person said why he was there: “violent crime”; “violent crime”; “manslaughter”; “double murder”; “violent crime”; “armed robbery”; “violent crime”; “violent crime—to protect my family—and I would do it again, but I am here to find out if I can learn to open up to people.” That established the tone for the weekend. Once someone said to me: “Everyone in prison will tell you that they are innocent.” That is not what happened. By-and-large, these men were taking responsibility for what they had done and wanted to address their lives. “I want to change my ways.” “I want to stop being a violent person.” “I want to be a good father for my kids.” These may or may not reflect the sentiments of the general prison population. I don’t know. One suspects, though, that the inmates who register for the class are most often those open to new directions.

After introductions, we each chose a positive adjective to accompany our names for the rest of the course. We went around the room. Dave might be Dedicated Dave. I was Writin’ Rod. Florence McNeil was Free Flo, Rose-Marie Sheehan was Real Ro. Each person, before selecting his or her name, has to go around the entire room, repeating all prior names. The last person has twenty-four names to remember; but we helped each other, both remember names and pick names.

By that time people had begun to relax. During the next exercise, we each talked about ourselves for three minutes—the good things about ourselves. People kept saying that the opportunity to open up, to say positive things was so unusual. The process helps people become aware that they have good things to focus on, to build their lives around. Other AVP exercises do the same thing; for instance, telling a story of the transforming power of love or how you helped defuse a violent situation with kindness.

In the process of doing these exercises, it surprised me how little these men knew each other, even each other’s name. Prison tends to be isolating. I noticed one inmate who sat erectly, an emotionless but intent look on his face. He did not talk often but always seemed to be listening. Earlier, he had told me that he avoided friendships because in prison friendships led to problems. A friend can get into trouble with the guards and you, because you are sometimes seen with him, will also be considered suspicious. I asked another inmate about the quiet man, and he said, “Yes, he is alone a lot, but I do see him with others—in the computer room or elsewhere—with people doing positive things with their time.” Thinking on that contributed to the following comments in the December 1995 issue: “I met a couple of inmates whose dignity and discipline made a deep impression on me. In prison, the difference between living a disciplined, positive life, and a life of self-destruction seems razor sharp.” That example—living a positive life, living a disciplined life—helps me address issues in my own life.

During those three days, some of the things I learned supported my biases and some contradicted them. I learned that for the most part, prison is dingy—no matter how well-lit or clean or well-painted. The central courtyard with its lawn and flowers and benches, a place of peace and beauty, is off-limits to inmates, except those who care for it. I also learned that prisons truly are places of suffering—suffering over mistakes made, years lost, families missed, as well as desperation caused by the conditions inside. So many talk of their children: not being able to see them grow up; desperately wanting to help them avoid the same mistakes they made; wanting to be there to protect their kids in a hostile environment. You see pain often on the inmates’ faces and in their eyes.

Also, I learned that there are good people in prison. I learned that no matter what a human being experiences, no matter how much deprivation and abuse and hatred and violence, the human spirit is still capable of good. As I told the workshop, I know people who have had every advantage in life and who are mean-spirited. Many of the people in that prison had grown up in the projects, had lived through the unimaginable, yet are still capable of and daily exhibit kindness and caring. Yes, there are inmates who justify, even advocate violence (“I’d rather be judged by twelve than carried by six”), but there are also men who are HIV-positive and face the prospect of dying in prison, who devote their lives to helping their fellow prisoners—positive, disciplined, gentle people, even if a little resentful.

During one of the exercises, we divided into groups and designed skits of what life would be like after parole or release. It was difficult for inmates to imagine a positive outcome. Most come from New York City where the cost of living is high. The women in their lives are orientated toward money. The choice most face is working for $6 an hour driving a truck, or $1,000 a day selling drugs. Most of these men lack education. Due to their culture—dress, speech, hairstyle—their road is difficult, whether inside or outside the drug economy. For someone of intelligence and ability, the temptation to do just one deal is huge.

Many inmates see their lack of competitive skills as elements in a conspiracy of oppression. The white guard/black inmate ratio is viewed as part of that structure. When the prison system withdraws funding for college courses, as it recently did in New York state, inmates see a system that wants them to fail so it can re-incarcerate them. One inmate, a powerful orator, described the similarity between the projects and prisons and rat cages: “They experiment on us just like they experiment on rats.” Many inmates see AIDS and cancer as diseases deliberately fostered by governments. They talk of how the guards love it when prisoners kill each other. The parole board is considered irrational, politically motivated, an integral part of an oppressive system.

Nevertheless, in New York state the statistics indicate that men released after spending twenty years or more in prison have only a 2% recidivism rate. Florence McNeil tells me that the men who have endured the really long sentences seem to come out with a resourcefulness and a will to succeed that allows them to overcome all obstacles. Prison is like sandpaper—it rubs off rough edges. The inmates I met, with fifteen or more years of incarceration behind them, had a tendency toward inner peace and discipline. That is a contradiction, or paradox, I know. Our penal system is brutal, encourages violence and recidivism; but you notice a difference, in general, between inmates who have been incarcerated for a year or two and those who have been in for ten years. I saw an even more pronounced difference in the man I talked to for a couple of hours who had been in for twenty-five years.

I am not arguing for stiffer sentences. We do not stop the cycle of violence with injustice. As even police officers will tell you, more prisons and more cops will not stop the violence. The answers are much more likely to lie in inner city youth projects run by former convicts who have turned their lives around. They lie in teaching inmates marketable skills so they can make a decent living when they are released. The answers lie in compassion and caring—the same qualities we want released prisoners to exhibit.

I spent an hour alone with an inmate who had been in prison for almost twenty-five years. He possessed a rare combination of inner peace and self-confidence. He had come to terms with a life of brutal limits. Small and wiry, he had spent many of his prison years teaching school and coaching and refereeing various athletic programs, in particular boxing. He started out, he said, fighting everybody—other prisoners, guards. The road to peace was long.

A few years after incarceration, another inmate, a long-termer, told him, “If you don’t get your act together, the guards will kill you. They have killed lots of others.” One senses that this is a man who survived by never letting fear control him. He had a problem with one officer, a guard who operated the cell doors on his block. The friend suggested that instead of “Open my cell,” he say, “Would you open my cell, please?” One day he tried it, and the guard thought he was crazy. A verbal exchange took place. The inmate was put in solitary lock-up. Later, the friend said, “Say it again, but this time without venom. I wouldn’t open the door for you either.” Four or five months later, he tried it again, and this time the guard addressed him as “Mr.———” and opened his cell door. Gradually, he started introducing “please” and “thank you” into his regular conversation. A short while later, he started teaching other prisoners to read. That changed his life.

He summed up his personal journey this way: “At first I thought I wouldn’t spend twenty-five years in prison. I was sure I would get released through appeal or on parole. But as the years went on, I gradually began to wonder if I would die in prison. I decided that if I was going to die in prison, I was going to do the best I could. Prisons are about hopelessness. The only way you develop hope in here is by helping others, and doing it with sincerity. It softens you no matter how tough you are.”

The role of service in personal transformation was also a primary element in my interview with Florence McNeil. She said:

I never quite fit in. Before AVP, I had always felt half a bubble off of plumb. Part of that was my belief in non-violence. Whenever I would say something about this belief, people would respond, “Yes, but . . . .” In AVP, I found other people who said, “Yeah, well . . . so . . . what are you doing about it?” They were working in prisons. I too wanted to do something positive with my beliefs.

At the time I attended my first workshop, my life was unmanageable. I had been married three times, twice to alcoholics, and I had raised six kids. We were constantly moving: the geographical cure. I had made some really bad choices. When my third husband left, I felt like a germ—like my entire existence was an annoyance to the planet. There seemed no way out. My life seemed over.

When I say at the beginning of the workshop that AVP gave me back my life, it did better than that. It gave me back a much richer life than I had ever lived before. It gave me something to do with my beliefs. It gave me skills in terms of handling feelings and communicating with people. When I was growing up, the family motto was, “If it is important, don’t talk about it.” How do you get past that? For me, work in prison has been a path on which many of the lessons have to do with opening up.

Before AVP, I assumed that the police rounded up as many of the bad guys as they could and put them in prison. I had this image of a gang of bad people. That changed the first time I walked into a workshop. Inmates quickly became individuals. Many were working on new dreams. I had lost the ability to dream. I wanted it back again. Some of these men had made bad choices—really bad mistakes—and so had I. But they were working with what they had. I began to feel that if they could build new dreams and follow them, so could I. If these dudes that have been in for fifteen or twenty years are open to the possibility of things getting better, and are willing to work and walk in that direction, if they can do it, so can I. Now you see the result: I love what I am doing, and I feel wonderful. That is what I mean by “Giving back my life.”

As Florence’s life became increasingly oriented around Alternatives to Violence, she began spending time each morning in prayer and meditation.

My dad was an Episcopal priest and my mother was a bishop’s daughter, so there was a great deal of formal ritual in my religious background. At first, I had a specific list of things that God should attend to. I had the outcomes figured out, so He didn’t have to worry. I would remind Him of items on the list. “This person needs Your attention. I want to say thank you for this and this.”

Her approach to prayer gradually changed when Florence began attending Quaker meeting.

Meeting helped me recognize the difference between feeling driven and being led. Gradually, my quiet time came to be about: “What can I do to help?” Now, I wait for that sense of being led. I had felt urgency for most of my life. The shift to a sense of following made my life so much more peaceful and, I think, more effective.

Sometimes, in my sitting, I will say, “I believe that this is what you want me to do. If not, you need to close some doors, because I am really going in that direction.” Sometimes I ask for company, “Help us be aware of Your presence, as we do this work.” It is not always easy. When I first connected with AVP, my response was, “Oh, God, not me! Prison? What are you talking about? Other people can do that. I can’t do that. I am sure you are not talking to me.” But sometimes you feel a hand pushing you from behind saying, “Come on. This is what you are going to do now.”

The Native American tradition has enriched my sense of all of this. A couple years ago in California, my daughter and I came across a herd of antelope. I was debating what to do with my life, and antelope teaches action. The leap of faith. When I told my children that a herd of antelope helped me make the decision to put my things in storage, leave my apartment and concentrate on AVP work, it made perfect sense to them because they are used to me. I move that way a lot.

Everything I do is volunteer—I don’t get paid for any of it. I have said, “Okay, God, if you want me to do this, I don’t want to have to worry about money. The rent is due, the insurance bill is here. I need some money in the mailbox.” The response is just as clear: “So, who told you to worry?” The money never seems to be in the mailbox immediately, but I usually can’t find the worry either. I don’t get the answer I want, but I get a very specific answer: “Don’t worry.” The money eventually does show up, and the month goes on. Often I have not had the money to keep right up with things, but that has been true for years. I’ve stopped feeling that I need to keep up if I know I can catch up. I’ve learned to live very simply. My Quaker meeting has put together a Released Friend fund that gives me enough money to devote three days every month to a workshop. I stretch that donation for three weeks. It is great for my morale to have their support. The Released Friend fund allows people who can’t spend three days a month in prison to participate. So I get a check from the Quaker meeting for between $150 and $300 a month. I rely heavily on this.

Over the last six years, Florence has done about eighty-five AVP workshops, sometimes with no one else from the outside. I asked her if she is ever frightened.

No, what I feel in that environment is pain. I feel completely safe with these people. I know that the inmate facilitators, many of whom have become my close friends, really care about us. I feel completely secure. I don’t feel threatened by the other participants either. But there is a tension inside right now. There is a lot of explosive energy.

Working with inmates who have been in for a while is often like working with monks. They have that same contemplative wisdom and insight. In each workshop, there are usually two or three people in their fifties or older who immediately sense how the exercise relates to life. Their insights make the course more available to the younger inmates. They talk about their spirituality, how it manifests itself. How they are conducting their search, their seeking. That is great company to be in. It is very enriching.

AVP is based on the conviction that there is good in everybody. We walk in here and that is who we speak to—the good person inside of each of us. Most of the time, it is the good person who responds. Our impact, as outside people, is based on the fact that we see something good in here. You sense very quickly how important that is to inmates. We come as volunteers; the inmates know that and appreciate it. We hear over and over how much it means to them that we will spend three whole days in prison, when we could be doing all kinds of other things.

The last six years of AVP work have been a great lesson, rather than a great drain. I’ve received much more than I have had to put out. At the same time, there is a terrific cost in terms of bearing other people’s burdens. Sometimes you just want to run away. Enormous pain. More than I had expected. Mother Teresa’s phrase: “Fidelity is my business and success is God’s business” has been a weight off my shoulders, but sometimes even fidelity is hard. There is a price to sharing the lives of people who are suffering. Today, one of the inmates, a good friend, left the workshop to bathe and shave and dress a man who is dying of AIDS so that he would be ready for a visit. The man is ninety pounds, and he may not live through the weekend. That is a willingness to be present for suffering. Running away is easier.

Alternatives to Violence: Guides to Transforming Power

(From a card handed out at the end of the workshop)
1. Seek to resolve conflicts by reaching for common ground.
2. Reach for that which is good in others.
3. Listen before making judgements.
4. Base your position on truth.
5. Be ready to revise your position, if it is wrong.
6. Expect to experience great inward power to act.
7. Risk being creative rather than being violent.
8. Use surprise and humor.
9. Learn to trust your inner sense of when to act.
10. Be willing to suffer for what is important.
11. Be patient and persistent.
12. Build community based on honesty, respect, and caring.

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